Elephants (Or “Ground Zero Mosques”) in the Room
I suppose someone out there is wondering why, given my openness about being an American Muslim, the debates surrounding the building of a mosque near ground zero haven’t been brought up in this space.
The thing is, I think most of you know where I would stand on this issue.
The other thing is, I am, frankly, exhausted at the prospect of writing yet another iteration of:
“I’m just a Muslim girl with Pakistani-American parents, standing in front of a relatively secular nation asking it to love her.”
If you’ve not seen Notting Hill, that last line was very clever. Trust me.
It occurred to me the other day that…
Someone out there who is reading this blog is incensed by the idea of a mosque being built NEAR ground zero.
They are also incensed by the idea that there are mosques being built in Los Angeles, Tennessee, or anywhere in our country.
This anger is so real, in fact, that when the President defends the rights of all Americans to build places of worship wherever they are legally allowed to do so, the accusation of him being “out of touch” with the American people is given full credibility and attention.
They are also so incensed that they’ve imagined that every Friday, every single Muslim in the whole world gets together on some version of terrorist Skype and we formulate plans for symbolic world domination. Like, we all sit around on Friday night, by the dim light of our burning American flags, coming up with names for a mosque that we plan to build on ground zero… I know!! Let’s call it Cordoba after the place where we got our butts kicked by the Christians back in the 13th century… that’ll teach them.
You should have been there, I tell you, it was just amazing how ALL ONE BILLION OF US agreed on this in just a matter of minutes!!
Look. Today, instead of my proselytizing about freedom, humanistic ideals and interfaith understanding, I’d like to offer an invitation.
I invite this incensed someone to state their opinion in a respectful and concise manner.
I would like you to tell me why, as your fellow American, I am not allowed to build a place a worship wherever I am legally able to do so.
I also ask readers to treat this commenter with respect if you choose to engage in a discussion, and to keep in mind that no person is defined by a single opinion. In other words, please don’t use words like “stupid” or “dumb.”
I also invite you to twitter or Facebook this post, so that the entire Internet can come here and respectfully explain to me exactly why a Muslim American should have less rights than a non-Muslim American.
I offer this invitation because I sincerely would like to know the rationale.
And I would like them to tell me to my virtual face.
I won’t even try to change their minds. Because, honestly, I don’t think it’s possible.
I’d just like to know what I’m up against.
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I agree with you, which is why I will only quote the following:
“Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
And that should be the end of this discussion.
(Did I do OK? Did I play nice? I think I did. Quite proud of myself. Didn’t even yell or scream. I think I deserve ice cream. And so do you, m’dear. After sunset, of course.)
I apologize for this being slightly off topic, but what version of Terrorist Skype are you using? I just want to make sure it’s worth the upgrade…
I will surely be back to see whether anyone comments. This issue is disturbing to me on SO many levels.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, there is already at least one mosque in that neighborhood, one that predates the World Trade Center. For me, that pretty much ends the
entire discussion.
That and the fact that it isn’t even a mosque, is it? Or that it isn’t even at Ground Zero.
Oh yeah, and that pesky first amendment thing.
Why is this even an issue? Must be an election year.
well said!
I wondered if you would say something or not, for the record I agree with you whole heartedly!
Without taking over your comments with why I am so irritated by this whole debate, I will say I am very much open to the idea of the mosque being built wherever one sees fit.
I also was waiting to see if you addressed this, and I am so glad you did. So, so glad. And I am also so, so tired of this debate. Good for you.
It’s easier to blame religion, or a religion, than the scary part of humanity that comits atrocities in its name. People are scared, angry, hurt and some just plain ignorant and unfortunately that does not always bring out the best in us. But to answer your question, you very much should have the same rights. If we fail to protect that fundemetal right as
If we fail to protect your fundamental right, then ultimately we fail to protect everones fundemtsl rights
Is this where I start screaming “The Muslims are coming! The Muslims are coming!” ??
I live in Olathe KS, just outside of Kansas City, and we have a masjid just down the street. If we have one out here in the sticks, I would certainly expect at least one or two in New York City. An actual city where “real” people live, as opposed to us backward hillbilly bumpkins out here.
Anyway! Bill O’Reilly and his ilk of Faux News love the distort the truth, per usual. I wonder how many folks realize that the masjid/community center in question is not ON Ground Zero or even in the same block? That it is nearly 2 blocks away?
Which begs the question to be directed at the opponents of the masjid – what is the royally decreed accepted distance? 3 blocks? 3 miles?
Wait. Don’t answer, I think already know.
Going to post this on FB right now, if you are serious. We just had a spirited discussion on this last night. BTW- I totally agree with you.
The other day I heard two elderly cab drivers talking about the proposed mosque NEAR Ground Zero. One of the guys, clearly the funny one, likened it to someone building a shrine to Adolf Hitler in the city. I’m not sure of his logic there, it was early in the day and I hadn’t had any coffee yet. But he seemed to equate a place of worship with WWII era Germany.
His buddy just shook his head and laughed. “That’s what you get for living in a country that celebrates more than one idea, Joe.”
I’m not sure if he was condemning that fact or applauding it.
Oh, and you never have to tell ME your movie references. I got the Notting Hill line from the get-go.
I completely agree with you and was going to ask you if you saw the Daily Show on this topic last week? It was awesome!
Anyway, I went looking for a replay of it to share on youtube and came across this video, which is what I think you are looking for with your blog post:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxFzFIDbKpg&feature=related
(again, I absolutely disagree with this and this entire issue makes me SO sad!)
@Alecia @ Hoobing Family Adventures, I just wanted to post the Jon Stewart bit — which I feel was very cleverly done:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-10-2010/municipal-land-use-hearing-update?xrs=share_copy
I don’t even know what to say- I’m amazed by the ignorance in this country sometimes, and…
Seriously. I don’t even want to get started. I will start foaming at the mouth.
I will totally be checking back.
(And if it’s not clear, I agree with you wholeheartedly!)
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by sam {temptingmama}, jodi, Faiqa, Kate Uí Mhaoileoin, Rachel Gonzales and others. Rachel Gonzales said: RT @jodifur: Please, please, read this post. RT @Faiqa: Native Born: Elephants in the Room http://bit.ly/drnYLD [...]
As I found out when I blogged about this topic, what you are up against is ignorance, hypocrisy, and a lot of unjustified and inexplicable anger.
I’ve mentioned this to you via email, but I’ll share it here in a public forum because I’m all self-absorbed and stuff.
This issue became an interesting topic to me because of the Jewish community reaction to it. First and foremost — Muslims and Jews throughout the past century have had a bit of a tumultuous relationship in regard to the claim to land in the Middle East. That conflict has spilled over into many other far reaches of the world, including this country. Yet I’ve also seen inroads within segments of the Jewish and Muslim communities to set aside our differences and move forward as two minority religions which want to exist within a country which was formed, in part, to free its inhabitants from the tyranny of a specific ruling religion.
When the Anti-Defamation League came out with its statement AGAINST the Park 51 project, I was floored. I’ve had my personal issues with the ADL’s representation of the Jewish community before, but I hadn’t ever felt that it had been SO against the grain of its own principals as I felt when that statement was released. I was not alone — many Jewish leaders and organizations immediately spoke out against the ADL’s statement. But there are many who feel just as passionately that this project is in poor taste and should not be built.
I’ve discussed this at length on Facebook over the past few days. Some of the arguments I’ve seen are simply gross misconceptions about Islam. Some have to do with the past statements of Imam Rauf which have been controversial. Some question the funding source of the Islamic Center.
Yesterday someone stated that it’s unfair that this “mosque” is getting the go ahead from the city while the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church which was destroyed on 9/11 still hasn’t been rebuilt. (There are continuing negotiations regarding building on the land which the church occupied between the City of New York and the Port Authority. The Church has expressed its desire to rebuild on the Ground Zero footprint.)
I don’t think the controversy will die down any time soon. Sadly, I see the anger getting worse before anything gets better. But I do feel that this is a very profound step which will allow more people to discover that American Muslims are not the group responsible for 9/11. I truly hope that the non-Muslim community uses the center as a way to get to know this community better.
(Sorry so rambly.)
And may you not be the exception… but the catalyst.
As a nonreligious person, am I allowed to be the offended representative of my 1.1 billion against your 1.5 billion and Christianity’s 2.1 billion? (http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html) Unfortunately, I can’t. I’m too busy fending off fun things like the Creation Museum and the new Texas education standards which removed Thomas Jefferson from textbooks. I don’t have time to rail against another do-gooder community center like the Jewish community centers, YMCAs and YWCAs that are certainly training future terrorists. Which reminds me, I need to sign up my daughter for swim lessons….
First time commenter here….just have to ask…is that the REAL Corey Feldman commenting up there? Cause that rawks my socks if it is.
And now to the topic…I completely agree with you. I have been in awe at the reaction to this. While I completely understand where SOME people are coming from in saying that it’s insensitive. It’s only insensitive because they don’t understand. The Muslim religion is unknown and therefore, fear takes over any and all rationale.
The U.S. Constitution gives ANY American the right to their religion and the practice thereof.
Most hate comes from fear and misunderstanding of whatever it is they are hating. I’m just glad I don’t live my life in fear and I have no understanding of their hate and fear towards everyday, American-Muslims. I don’t get it.
I’ll be interested to see any responses beyond what you have hear because I’d like to see a rational argument for the hate.
Well, Miss Faiqa, amidst all of this praise for your blog, let me be the devil’s advocate for a moment. This is not an issue of freedom of religion at all. Even from the most adamant opponents of this mosque, I have yet to hear the words “Muslims should not be allowed to worship.” In fact, every opponent I have heard merely believes that the mosque should be moved several blocks farther away, not that the mosque should not exist at all.
while I have been disgusted with the rhetoric from the right on this topic, I have been equally disturbed by the rhetoric from the left (particularly MSNBC and the Daily Show) which frames this topic so specifically as a religious rights issue that it is clearly meant to paint the opponent into a corner. But I think that does a disservice to those who face real threats to their religious liberties.
After all, which American would truly oppose the first amendment? (Besides me, of course, who believes this whole freedom of speech thing has gotten way out of hand with blogs, twitter, etc. [you excepted]–a phenomenon I call “the democratization of the voice” which I thoroughly detest: after all, there are voices that just shouldn’t be heard!)
Anyway, digression aside, the mosque issue is about another basic right–that of private property–and its historic conflict with community “interest”. We’d like to think that we can do whatever we wish with our property, but anyone who owns property knows that neighborhood, city, town, county, state, and even federal jurisdictions have a say in land use policies. I cannot build a sunroom on my house without the county’s permission (and hence, I have no sunroom). Dating to the inception of our nation, American history is filled with episodes of property owners hoping to convert their property into something other than what it was, and being turned down by review boards, historic preservation boards, etc.
In this case, the local (lower Manhattan) debate over whether the mosque will be 1) architecturally appropriate to that urban landscape and 2) appropriate in such proximity to the WTC site was resolved favorably by the community. Typically, Americans respect the authority and autonomy of local jurisdictions to decide such matters for themselves. But the rhetoric from the right suggests that this is no longer true–that property owners and the communities in which they live should not have the authority to decide on land use.
I know, I know, it is not as sexy as yelling about deprivation of first amendment rights, but it is more honest. The right of private property is far more fragile than freedom of speech. There is no constitutional amendment that protects it, and while it is often praised as foundational to our society, recent Supreme Court rulings (e.g., Kelo v. City of New London, 545 U.S. 469 [2005]) indicate that the right to own and use property as one wishes cannot be taken for granted. This move to dictate how you can use your own private property (and weakened property rights result from only two impetuses–socialism and communalism) comes from the right. So the threat is much larger than depriving some Muslim Americans of a place to worship: it is a threat to all Americans and the basic idea of what America is.
And finally, why should a Muslim American have less rights than a non-Muslim American? Why can’t gays marry? Why do women have to continue to work harder for equal pay for equal work? Why do blacks continue to face employment discrimination? Why do all Mexican-Americans get labeled as illegal immigrants? Why will we never have a Mormon president? Or a Muslim president? Or a Jewish president?
America–and its promise of freedom and rights–is not complete, it’s an idea still in process. I am fascinated watching and even participating in that process.
And that concludes today’s lecture. Tomorrow’s topic: why this is ALL Jefferson’s fault!
@Craig Friend, so you’re contending that if this was a church or a Starbucks, it would still be an issue? I disagree.
@Avitable, Not at all, because neither a church or a Starbucks are controversial as a result of 9/11. Certainly, the fact that it is a mosque makes it a target of prejudice, but not because it is a place of worship but rather because it is a Muslim institution. Still, that does not make this episode a strike against religious freedom but rather an attempt to dictate to private property owners the right to use their property as they wish.
@Craif, I think that does make it a strike against religious freedom because if it were not for the particularly religious nature of the building in dispute, it would not be an issue.
@Avitable, Do you think if it were just a Muslim community center, that there would be less complaint? Many of those who oppose the mosque do so, not because it is a place of worship, but because they imagine that when Muslims join together that they are plotting terrorism against the United States. If it were advertised as a hostel for Muslim students, do you think they furor would be less? Or would the cry be that we cannot allow any gathering Muslims because Muslims are a threat? I have not heard one opponent claim that s/he opposes the mosque because they fear Islamic theology, although they certainly like to phrase it as a dangerous religion to strengthen their arguments. Accepting their rhetoric only empowers them.
@Craif, there would be just as much complaint if it were a Muslim community center, which would, once again, be religious oppression. It doesn’t have to be a place of worship for people to be bigoted.
@Craif, “I have not heard one opponent claim that s/he opposes the mosque because they fear Islamic theology, although they certainly like to phrase it as a dangerous religion to strengthen their arguments.”
Exactly. Although they aren’t coming out directly and saying it’s about religion, their true feelings about this issue shine through in their tone and phrasing.
And for the critics who want the mosque site moved “several blocks away”, how far is far enough? Brooklyn?
@Craif, Actually, I have. You ought to check out the thread following Jon Stewart’s spanking of those against the Cordoba building. Not only do they fear Muslim theology, they don’t look at the Americans who are planning the building as Americans.
at the very risk of being the one called stupid/ignorant I will reveal a bit of my view on this.
disclaimer: i don’t live in NYC, i am not a Muslim; i don’t know anyone personally that was a victim of 9/11.
Do i have a problem with a mosque being built in the US: no, one of the basics of these United States is freedom of religion (not be be confused with freedom of Christianity).
Reason(s) i think a mosque where it is currently being considered in NY is a bad idea: location, location, location.
It shouldn’t surprise anyone that a mosque within the vicinity of ground zero creates outrage. Unfair, to be sure; unexpected, no.
The point is not to debate who/how/what caused 9/11…the PERCEPTION is that it was done by a group that did it under the guise of Islam. Perception is reality…we all do it in various ways every day of our life.
When Hamas comes out and publicly endorses the building of this mosque…when the person building the mosque comes out and says they will fund the building of the mosque with money from “sources in the mideast”…sorry, you have to understand that it causes discomfort, and yes fear,among people.
Ground zero is the final resting place for many people. And as you asked for in this post, respect, that is what the families of victims are asking for…respect.
It’s not fair to blame all Muslims and we as a country need to learn/understand/embrace this. Likewise, in this case, the Islam community need to learn/understand/embrace why at this point in time…not even 10 years later…this is still a fresh wound and picking at the scab is not a good idea.
Yes, i know this mosque is not “on” ground zero…i know this is a “couple blocks” away…but the reality is, this is not like blocking the building of a mosque in say North Carolina because “we don’t want it”
Different religions throughout history have been stained due to the actions of extremists. And rather than belittle, hurl insults, or label them stupid…we need to understand and work to change the perceptions people have.
will it be easy…no. nothing worthwhile is every easy.
@Kris, I think Kris’s comment represents the majority of those who oppose the mosque, and I have to say that it is very sad. The essence of the argument is that if people are uncomfortable, fearful, or consider themselves disrespected, then that which threatens them–the religious practices of others in this case–should be deprived. It shows the power of the politics of fear of the unknown, which has been hammered into the American psyche by Republican AND Democratic politicians and pundits since the end of the Cold War. As a wise president once said, “You have nothing to fear but fear itself.” It is appropriate more today than ever.
@Craig Friend, I’ve seen far too much of such attitudes, and I live nowhere near NYC. The venomous remarks I’ve heard here, since a mosque was built on the outskirts of town a couple of years ago, have disgusted me. The people of my little southern town are afraid of that mosque, and many of them are willingly ignorant concerning the Muslim faith. This kind of fear and vitriol are used to say any place is the “wrong” location for a mosque. This debate is not about Ground Zero, not about the people who want to build a Muslim center nearby. The problem is not those people or the site: the problem is the mindset of those who object.
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”
— Mark Twain
@Kris, This is much ado over nothing. There is a mosque (possibly two) in that very neighborhood that’s been there for 40 years. Should they move?
I don’t really have anything to add – I think you made your point cogently. I’m just commenting so I can subscribe to comments and see what others have to say.
I feel Muslim Americans are the victims of the modern day Witch Hunts. As a Witch, this disturbs me on a few levels. I mean granted, everyone still thinks we worship the devil, but we don’t get nearly as much face time as the Muslims do these days.
This whole country was established because colonists were fighting oppression from England. Now, we are the oppressors to anyone or anything that we don’t like. It’s rather hypocritical don’t you think?
The Muslims are simply this era’s scape goats for everything that is wrong about this country. In another 30-40 years it will be something else. Maybe the Hispanics will be to blame for everything, who knows? It’s a vicious circle.
@Cissa Fireheart, and yeah, I’m half hispanic, so that’s 2 strikes against me, eh? oh wait I’m a woman…there ya go, America will officially hate me in 30 years or so….
@Cissa Fireheart,
You said “eh”…are you Canadian? 3 strikes against you…
Americans DO confuse me…
Concerning your constitutional rights- on the right to bear arms-what if I object, so oppose your right to pack within 2 blocks of my home?
It sometimes appears to me that some ‘rights’ are more fiercely defended than others in your country. Especially in an election season.
@Momma, actually, it doesn’t give you the right to bear arms, except in a well-organized militia. Unless you have one (a militia), you are technically not following the spirit of the amendment. But, we stretch all amendments to serve our own purposes, and have for a while now.
Everyone wants free speach, until my version of freedom of expression offends them. Then it’s all down with teh gays, down with the muslims, etc.
We need to learn to live and let live!
@Becca, That is EXACTLY what I have always read into it, but I’m not American so am left scratching my head.
Well, that’s not quite true, being from the same American continent, I AM American although our country is Canada. I mean, Africans are all African, though maybe from different countries, aren’t they? and so on
I don’t even know how I personally feel about this subject. I emailed Faiqa privately with the sentiment I have seen from the responders of that day who lost loved ones and who now have PTSD and other psychological and health issues from that day. If you are not the specific victim of this incident I don’t think you can ever completely understand this objection.
I feel the energy around me of those who object, but I will never know their specific anger because I was not here that day, I did not respond that day, and I did not lose a loved one that day.
I know a lot of people who intellectually argue this issue know in their minds that putting a mosque in a location does not support the actions of terrorism, but in the minds of those who oppose it… they feel that it does. FEEL. Understand the difference, thinking and feeling. You cannot help what you feel. You can change what you think.
The only way for a mosque at WTC to be an acceptable idea to those who lived through 9/11 is to go back in time and make 9/11 just be a regular day.
And I really don’t care if anyone finds my words to be ignorant. It’s ok for you to think lesser of me for having a contradictory opinion. But for those who lived this event… please respect that they are permanently scarred by it and this issue is triggering that day again for them. Right or wrong. Right or wrong.
Less than 12 hours ago I listened to a Muslim talk passionately to a curious Christian (both orthodox in their faith) who asked why is there so much partying lately at 11pm?
Ramadan.
The Muslim explained the rules of fasting, prayers and readings, breaking of fast, last 10 days of power, supporting the poor, and more.
To me it was a beautiful sight both respecting each other and such. Even another onlooker saw how excited I was to see such a sight. He even invited her to step in a Mosque and see for herself. Mind you she was a little scared she wouldn’t be accepted not being in formal Muslim wear.
I have had many colourful conversations about spirituality and religion with this Muslim before. My favourite would be the time he showed how respectful of other faiths he is and how willing he is to share his faith without pushing it on people yet turns around and has no trouble telling me how he will be happily laughing at me “burn in hell” (so figuratively speaking here!!) come “Judgment Day.” I love that honesty! I am not being sarcastic either.
I guess in my old age of 35 (almost 36) I have finally gotten affirmation of my suspicions that TV is not any good to man kind. Call me naive but people should watch a little less TV and get out there and meet people and know first hand and make their own opinion.
All the Muslims I have met so far have been most respectful, understanding, passionate people ever. They don’t hide that (as in the YouTube video above) in their circle they are strong and well connected. Who isn’t? It just screams insecurity what is going on.
Objecting to a Mosque being placed near Ground Zero is an extension of blaming Islam for the attack. There’s no other explanation. If you didn’t feel that Muslims are to blame for 9/11 you wouldn’t think this way. All the other verbiage is self justification for bigotry. It’s not the same thing, but it’s sort of like saying “I don’t have a problem with Obama because he’s black” ten minutes after telling race jokes to your friends in the kitchen. It’s called being full of shit.
I’d like to introduce the relatives of the victims who oppose to the relatives of the victims who don’t. Or the relatives of victims who were Muslims.
And you will notice I did not once use the word “stupid” or “dumb.” But obtuse and specious work pretty good here.
I see nothing wring with a mosque being built anywhere. Freedom of religion is,supposedly, what the USA was built on. 9/11 was not the act of all Muslims. It was the act of radicals. Just like the Germans were not all Nazis; not all catholics killed pagans; not all Christians protest at soldiers funerals. Don’t hate a creed/race/colour/religion bases on the actions of a few.
I think the real problem with all the negative reactions has a simple origin: Ground Zero was never rebuilt- it got wrapped up in so much red tape & budget problems. But for the familes who survived this, all New Yorkers, and all Americans, there really should be a massive project in place. I think it scares some people that a Muslim Community Center is being built 2 blocks away before anything of significance is done with Ground Zero. However, that is not the fault of the American Muslim community, so people just need to start looking at the big picture, and become active in making Ground Zero something other than Ground Zero. This is also a welcome opportunity by Obamaphobes to again link him with a “terrorist organization.” Of course, I know racism plays a part, but the fact that after 10 years, after vows of “rebuild, better than ever,” GZ remains empty, really makes Americans (including me) sore. Good article, thank you.
@Anna, *It was my understanding that this building will be a community center of which the mosque will be part. (After reading more of these posts, I see that it is mostly referred to as a Mosque.)*
@Anna, I agree with you 100% about the stalled rebuilding of the Ground Zero site. Living in the Washington, DC area, I was pretty amazed (and proud) to see that work to rebuild the Pentagon occurred almost immediately and was dedicated a year to the day after 9/11. To me, it sent a message: terror can try to stop us in our tracks, but we’ll just continue to move forward and rebuild.
The damage to New York City was far more severe, and I completely understand that the project isn’t nearly as easy as rebuilding a side of the Pentagon. But you’re right — it’s taking a toll on those affected and making it more difficult to move forward. Not forget, but simply move forward.
@Anna, What’s really sad is that this community center could spur a revitilzation of a neighborhood that still hasn’t recovered from 9/11. It would provide jobs and a sense of community that has yet to come back.
I agree that the fact that, nine years later, there is still a big hole in the ground is at least part of the problem. There’s no closure there, no sense of moving on.
The thing that keeps occuring to me when I think of this issue is that I’m actually a bit surprised that there isn’t some sort of Muslim representation planned at the Ground Zero site itself (as well as representations of other religions and other cultures). That seems like it would be a fitting demonstration of what our country is about. The site should celebrate our diversity and the ideals of our country in as many ways as possible. Of course, I haven’t acutally investigated this, so perhaps something like this is already planned. Given the current media frenzy, I’m guessing not or it would have been mentioned. Sad.
I live in NYC. I lived here on 9/11. I was lucky enough not to lose anyone close to me. I was lucky that my friends who were downtown survived. I was lucky to be able to man the office phone for a co-worker who needed to go home because her husband worked in one of the Towers. I was especially lucky to be able to field a call from that husband when he found a payphone and tell him she waited for him at home. And not for nothing, I was teaching 4 blocks from the WTC in 1993 when the truck bomb went off.
I am not opposed to the building of this cultural center. There are a lot of reasons for that, most of them cited here. The one thing that keeps my comments and opinions civil are the feelings of the families of people who died in the attack because I was lucky. I can’t know how they feel. However, there are other Muslim organizations in the area, just as close to the big hole in the ground as this one will be. These organizations and places of worship have been there for 40 years or more. I’m not sure how a new one will be more of a trigger for PTSD than these. I can’t know. Members of the group that want to officially build this new center have been worshipping and gathering in the area for a long while now. Their number includes people who lost friends and relatives in the 9/11 attack. So by refusing them are we to devalue their loss next to the Judeo-Christian and atheist and Hindu and other losses? When the list of names are read every September 11th all these survivors have assembled in the pit and stood together to hear their loved ones’ remembered, no religious distinctions made. They will, presumably, also assemble at the official memorial when and if it is completed in its ever-lessening footprint as allowed by the commercial developers of this so-called sacred ground.
It’s complicated. I get that. Feelings are complicated and it’s going to take lifetimes to sort those out. Legally, though, it’s less complicated, whether you’re looking at the constitutional or the property facets of it. Honestly, I wish everyone would stick to the legal ruling and shut up about it.
But this is America. That’s never going to happen.
@Kizz, ^^This!^^
I can honestly say that I don’t really care if a mosque is built near Ground Zero. I’m clear on the fact that Islam is not responsible for what happened on 9/11, in the same way that Christianity is not responsible for the people who bomb abortion clinics.
There are always going to be people who make generalities. The truth is that most people, regardless of religious beliefs, just want to take care of their business, raise their kids and get from day to day.
I’ve been trying to write a post that works out my feelings about the mosque near Ground Zero.
I’m conflicted. I’m deeply conflicted. And I find myself reacting against both sides. The right–who seem to think that the mosque will provide cover for Al Queada operatives, and the left– who believe that the Bill of Rights is at stake if the mosque isn’t erected RIGHTTHERE.
Honestly–I don’t like it.
Not because I don’t like mosques any more than I don’t like churches and synogogues– I’m equally ambivalent about every other religion out there–but because I wonder why does it have to be so close to Ground Zero?
I felt compelled to comment. However, I am sure many in disagreement will attack my post. I lived in New York when this happened, and at the time where I lived in Queens my local merchants’ stores were attacked, especially if they wore a turban. I have seen unending hate, and although I am not muslim, I felt for those who had nothing to do with this.
I can only believe, in today’s world, that the moment that mosque would be built, it would be destroyed.
It’s too soon, especially in that area, to build something that most uneducated people find to be frightening and in sync with a group of people they feel would strike again, at any time.
In my opinion, it would be a disaster if it were erected.
Having said that, I feel sadness for those decent, religious and law abiding citizens that cannot understand the mind of racist and intolerant Americans.
@Fairmaiden327, I also fear there will be terrible and violent repercussions but if their group is willing to go into that with this knowledge then I think it’s not up to us to block them in the name of protecting them. You know?
Again, complicated and so hard.
@Fairmaiden327, While I totally get your rationale, I think that’s the main reason WHY it needs to be built. People can’t cower to ignorance every time it rears its ugly head. If someone does go and destroy it, it says more about the people that destroy it than the people that worship there.
I’m just going to go ahead and copy and paste what I wrote about this somewhere else because while I feel very strongly about this issue, I am also very lazy.
I live in a super, ultra, mega conservative county of the (actually very liberal) Minnesota. Most people that I have talked to about this issue are against the “Ground Zero Mosque”. (They’re also in favor of Prop 8 and changing the 14th amendment and so on and so on.) What I have found is that there seems to be a portion of this country (and it’s mostly white, mostly Republican, mostly “Christian”) who seems to think that there is a limited amount of freedom and success and happiness to be had in this country. In other words, if we let “others” get too happy then we’re going to be less happy. Just for example, look at one of the driving arguments behind building this mosque – “It’s disrespectful to MY feelings, I mean the feelings of all New Yorkers. I mean the feelings of all Americans EVERYWHERE!!” It all boils down to “If everyone is allowed to pursue happiness equally then I will be less happy.” I makes no sense but a lot of people feel that way.
Anyway, I could go on and on and on about this but my main point is this: A lot of people can’t be happy unless they feel like they’ve got some power or privilege over the “other guy” and Muslims are a real easy “other guy” right now. It makes me sad that people can’t see how scary and potentially destructive the “other guy” mentality is and where it can lead. I wish more people subscribed to the idea that we all do better when we ALL do better.
I haven’t heard anyone say that no has a “right” to build a mosque anywhere.
I simply think it’s in poor taste and unnecessarily confrontational.
And now the governor of New York has asked to meet with developers to discuss an alternate site. They said no.
Now, if the proposed site were some Muslim holy ground, that would be different. But it’s not.
I mean, I haven’t heard of anyone trying to build a Shinto temple within eyesight of the USS Arizona.
@Functionally ReTodded, but why is it in poor taste? Would it be in poor taste to have a Catholic church erected near the Oklahoma City bombing site? Or a gun range? Because, I mean, McVeigh was a Catholic and a gun nut, so that’s patently offensive, right?
No, it’s not.
@Avitable,
I actually do think it’s in poor taste to built a gun range near the Oklahoma site. And if McVeigh’s terrorism was in the name of Catholicism, then yes, I think building a church nearby is inappropriate.
There are many tragedies that came out of 9/11, and it’s absolutely unfair that Islam has been so widely maligned as a result. But it doesn’t make me feel any less uneasy about the location of the mosque.
@Marinka, That’s a little funny because I think it would be inappropriate to deny someone the ability to build a gun range near the Ok City bomb site because, as a gun owner, I don’t really see why – were I living in OKC – this comes back to me. Is there some kind of connection between gun owners and homegrown terrorists I need to be aware of?
I haven’t heard anyone say that no has a “right” to build a mosque anywhere.
I simply think it’s in poor taste and unnecessarily confrontational.
And now the governor of New York has asked to meet with developers to discuss an alternate site. They said no.
Now, if the proposed site were some Muslim holy ground, that would be different. But it’s not.
I mean, I haven’t heard of anyone trying to build a Shinto temple within eyesight of the USS Arizona.
I love that those opposed use the word ‘insensitivity’ when referring to the proposed mosque. What is insensitive is to treat a fellow American as ‘less than’ because of their faith. Did Oklahoma ban white guys after the bombing?
Would we be having this conversation I a catholic church were to be built near the site of the Oklahoma bombing? I think not. Though I believe it is exactly the same.
Regarding location:
I’m assuming that the people who want to build a community center in this area are looking to have a community facility that is actually located in the community it is serving – yes?
Or is the next argument that it is insensitive to allow Muslims to live that close to Ground Zero?
Perhaps we should ban Muslims like Faiqa from visiting Ground Zero when they visit NYC, because her presence in that spot might be a painful reminder to someone?
I wish we had pictures of the people who would be potentially served by this community center. People, Muslims, who presumably live in this area.
I wish we had to look those people in the eye and say, as nicely and sensitively as possible, “I’m not saying not to pray or not to exist. Could you just.. you know… not do it here?”
I wish we had to look into Faiqa’s eyes and say, “Faiqa, I love you. I value you as a human. I respect your right to worship. But.. you know… not here, ok?”
@Miss Britt, Nail. Head.
@Miss Britt, Miss Britt FTW!
@Miss Britt, This comment? Is the best thing ever.
@Miss Britt, YES. Exactly.
@Miss Britt,
I love this comment almost as much as I love this post.
@Miss Britt, There is truly something beautiful to be discovered when gazing into the eyes of another. Some of us have learned to discern the eyes of the Beloved…
In the late 1960′s, a man named Samuel Lewis was given a vision that if people eat, pray, and dance together there will be peace. Out of that vision was born the Dances of Universal Peace which today are danced around the world celebrating the many ways we know the Divine.
What caused me to realize that I was in the right place, the first time I participated in the Dances, was the first time I gazed deeply into another person’s eyes and saw myself, and I saw the Beloved!
What an incredible experience it is to KNOW someone and to see the Beloved in their face!
It’s just ignorance. I’d like to chalk it up to evil, because that’s how most of the “anti-mosque” rhetoric sounds, but sadly while America as a whole is a progressive, multi-cultural, and forward-looking entity, when you separate it out into individuals, far more than I like to think of those individuals are bigoted, willfully-ignorant, hate-filled assholes. This issue seems to have become the latest litmus test for idiocy; my brother-in-law unfriended me on Facebook for pointing out in the comments of his “NO GROUND-ZERO MOSQUE OMG” status update that the people who flew those planes into those buildings were no more representative of the ideals of Islam than he was of Christianity. That’s the sad thing; everyone in this discussion feels like they’re out there representin’ whatever they believe in exemplary form. Sigh.
@MFA Mama, I truly believe that this hoopla is coming to light NOW because we’re entering election/campaign season. The plans for Park 51 have been on the books for quite a while now; the opposition has gained steam due to statements by a political figure who is endorsing specific candidates for the upcoming elections.
I also blame Facebook for giving everyone a voice.
Completely off-ish topic, but really, kind of relative in a way-ish:
The arguments against the Muslim center (I don’t think they plan to use it solely as a Mosque) are that it’s “too close to sacred ground.” (Of course I’m taking liberties with my quotes.)
Why are the people opposed to the Muslim center, NOT upset at the strip club that’s equidistant from “the hallowed grounds of 9/11″?
@Angie [A Whole Lot of Nothing], Truth. You have to ask yourself sometimes what’s worse….
I laughed (and snorted) in the ironic-ness of your point.
Faiqa, you’ve got brass tits for posting this, and I respect you immensely.
Let’s call a spade a spade: this is the far right’s last-ditch attempt at milking the fear generated by 9/11 for their own political gain. Mark my words, if were weren’t close to midterm elections, this wouldn’t even be a priority in the national political discourse.
@KBO, Is it wrong I got a little excited about the brass tits thing there?
I just don’t get how the actions of a small segment of people who happen to practice the tenets of a certain religion (or so they claim) should be used as justification to punish the millions of others who practice it as well. In case I didn’t make it clear, yes, I am in support of the right to build it near Ground Zero. I don’t understand why this is a debate and am glad to see that many of the commenters here seem to be in agreement.
While I’m not surprised at the reaction, I am saddened by it.
It’s extremely ignorant to paint all Muslims with the same brush. As it is with any segment of society.
The sad thing is, we all share more in common than we have differences.
I long for a day we celebrate those commonalities and eagerly learn about our differences instead of fearing them.
This post makes me so thankful to be able to live in a country where I can read something of such dignity and courage and humor in the face of such a storm of hatred and fear. Taking you up on your invitation…
In 1915 ANZAC (and Allied) troops landed on the Gallipoli peninsula in Turkey where they proceeded to attempt to take control. Today there are several ANZAC memorials on that peninsula where every 25th April tens of thousands of Australians and New Zealanders congregate to remember their countrymen who died in that attempt. Let me be clear: the ANZACS were +invading+ Turkey. The Turkish not only allow the memorial and the visitors but ensure the whole place is kept pristine and that history is preserved.
87,000 Ottoman empire soldiers died in the campaign (and 47,000 allied troops).
The memorials started being built in 1920, 5 years after the landing, 1 year after the end of the war.
I just think it’s food for thought.
People can always find what they consider to be a rational argument for oppression because it serves their purpose. I live for the day that is no longer the case. I don’t feel like I have adequate words to express how I feel about this issue except to say that the backlash about the building of this mosque makes me sad deep down in my heart.
So many people are conflicted about this issue and I’m conflicted about why it’s even an issue.
Build the mosque. Rebuild the community.
(Disclosure – My little sister lives in vicinity of Ground Zero.)